New Things
Posted by Mandi on May 13th, 2009 . Filed under: Christianity, Faith, Personal, Religion .All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
(from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights)
Monday afternoon I spent several hours in a car with a coworker driving to DC for a conference. Three and a half hours provides time for ample conversation, and naturally the changes in my faith came up. For the first time, I actually took the time and made the effort to think about and articulate what I believe now, and why.
It was quite liberating.
I said out loud to someone that I don’t believe Jesus is the Son of God, a redeemer, or the Messiah. She asked me who my redeemer is, who I go to for strength, what keeps me good.
My answer? Me.
I choose to live the way that I do because it’s the right thing to do. I have no fear of eternal damnation. What I do have is empathy and compassion for man. That’s what “keeps me good.”
I still pray. Because prayer, for me, is me talking to myself. It always has been. It’s a time where I talk problems out. I vent, rant, or even express gratitude. But it’s still just me, talking to me, for me. It’s a time to get things off my chest. It’s NOT me talking to some other being, asking them to magically make life better or give me strength to deal with life. My strength comes from within.
She asked if I believe in fate. I do not. Life is the consequences of the choices we make. Nothing ever “just happens.” It’s the same with good and evil. I don’t believe anyone is inherently good or evil. who we are is a product of the choices that we make. I choose to be good. Sometimes I choose to be selfish. A lot of times I want to be selfish, yet still choose to do the right thing.
It’s all about choice.
There are still some irrational beliefs that I hold. Or maybe irrational is the wrong word. While I no longer believe in the God of the Bible, I still look around in awe and wonder and can’t help but think that something had a hand in it. Is it an all-loving, involved in our lives, infinite being? No. Is it an all knowing punisher? No. But who or what it is, I don’t know. I don’t really care to know as it doesn’t affect my life one way or the other.
I do believe in a spirit world. I can’t tell you what it looks like – it’s strange for me to believe in spirits when I don’t believe in heaven or hell. It’s just this feeling I have that there’s more to this world than what I can see. But this probably has something to do with my silly fascination with the supernatural – vampires, witches, werewolves, etc.
But Mandi, haven’t you said over and over again that you’ve experienced, felt, and spoken with God? Absolutely. But after more objective reflection, I’ve realized that what many people had been telling me was correct. It was emotional. It was all purely emotional. And realizing that has actually been a great relief.
Ultimately though, in the things that matter, it’s all about me. I know that sounds horrible, but it’s not. Life is a product of our choices. What I choose – how I live – is what matters. What you choose is what matters in your life.
-fin
May 18th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
“What you choose is what matters in your life.”
)
That would be true IF you were an island. You aren’t. You are part of a bigger system that you and your actions affect.
I’m so curious (being new to your journey) how you managed to “cancel out” Jesus as God? What evidence or data led you to that conviction?
Where do you believe you will be after death–since there is 100% chance that you will die? I’m not wanting to be inflamitory at all…I hope you will believe that. I’m just so curious. Would you indulge me?
If you prefer to converse off your public site, I understand. If you prefer to not engage in the conversation at all, I respect that, although I would be curious about that as well!
May 19th, 2009 at 4:46 am
Hi Sheri
Your questions don’t bother me at all! In fact, if you’ve perused my archives any, you’ll see that frank discussion about religious beliefs (or nonbeliefs) have always been the norm here. It’s only in the last year that I backed off from all of that, in an effort to “hide” who I was becoming from the world at large. Now, though, I’m ready to be loud and proud about who I am.
Authentically me.
Rather than answer everything that you’ve posed here, I’m going to point you to a few different posts that I wrote over the last couple of years. Hopefully they will give you a short glimpse into the journey that led me here.
I had posted inklings of doubt in the days leading up to this one, but this was my first actual “I have doubts” post:
http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/06/21/all-for-nothing/
This is the one that really explains everything I was thinking:
http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/06/25/what-happened-to-mandi-kaye/
But still, after all of that, I wasn’t ready to walk away from everything I ever knew and everything I was. I chose to continue walking the path of faith. (See archives from June/July 2007).
I walked that path for the better part of a year, before I finally came to the place I’m at right now… although it was just a whisper at the time:
http://www.mandikaye.com/2008/04/16/it-is-finished/
And it’s taken me another year to get to the place where I can shout, rather than whisper, that my path has changed.
After reading those, I’ll gladly talk with you more, if you have more questions (though I’m sure you will, as none of those truly answer any questions so much as give you a glimpse inside my emotions).
May 26th, 2009 at 10:11 am
My answer? Me.
I choose to live the way that I do because it’s the right thing to do. I have no fear of eternal damnation. What I do have is empathy and compassion for man. That’s what “keeps me good.”
Yes! Exactly! Well done.
I still pray. Because prayer, for me, is me talking to myself. I
OMG, I’ve been praying for the last 30 years? I had no idea!
June 12th, 2009 at 7:26 am
My answer? Me.
I choose to live the way that I do because it’s the right thing to do. I have no fear of eternal damnation. What I do have is empathy and compassion for man. That’s what “keeps me good.”
AH!!! How I love that comment, and similar ones!!! It’s so true. I often find that people with that mindset are far more compassionate, caring, upstanding, and decent than those who rely on holy books or pulpits for their guidance. (Yes, a bit of an over generalization, but you get my drift. I’ve often complained that there’s very little Christ-like in many Christians, so that comment is really no surprise coming from me. However, we have exceptions to every rule, the United Church of Christ being the biggest.)
I haven’t been around in awhile, so I hope all is well with you, Amanda! Facebook has become my new playground, and I can use my real name there, so the blog has sort of fallen off the radar. I hope to go back to it in the summer, and crosspost items to my blog anonymously, and to my facebook as the “Authentic” me!
June 15th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Hi Mandi,
I have been a Christian and a web-addict long enough to know the routine of religious discussions online. I am typically upset by the way “online evangelists” turn quickly from empathy and compassion to judgment as soon as their supposed “web outreach” tactic doesn’t work.
I wish you hadn’t made the journey that you’ve made this far, but I know there is a story behind it. My hunch is that you still believe in God and are mad at him or afraid of something or hiding from something. I don’t believe that anyone ever has a relationship with God and then all of a sudden “realizes” that it was all a lie. Instead, they “realize” something that helps them deal with a question they couldn’t answer or a hurt they couldn’t handle.
The Scriptures talk about seed being scattered on rocky ground that dries up in the hot sunlight beating down on it because it has no roots. When we walk with God, he calls us to put roots down so that we can withstand the day where the sun is beating down on us. If you don’t grow roots down into God’s truth enough to be able to drink up nutrients from deep wells in times of heat or drought, you are more likely to fall away.
Growing roots requires pushing. Pushing down past obstacles and through tough soil, down toward wells that you aren’t sure are there. It means wrestling with questions like the existence of hell in a world with a good God, the problem of evil, the veracity of the Bible, the meaning of loving your enemies, the veracity of Jesus’ resurrection…These things are hard to wrestle with, but you have to go there if you are going to grow roots. Jacob was named Israel because he wrestled with God. He was the man who inherited the promise, not Esau, who was hungry so he traded it all away for a bowl of soup.
What’s the lesson? It is always easier to not wrestle and to not grow roots, and to simply give in. The world is like a river, and we are called to swim upstream. That’s not easy. But you have to realize that true, deeply grounded faith which can actually handle deep questions- that kind of faith is rare. The scripture says that kind of faith is worth more than gold refined in fire, because it has been tested and proven to be genuine.
I believe that swimming upstream is the only way to have a meaningful life. I believe that the river current is carrying everyone to a big waterfall where all the fishies got thrown down a million miles into an abyss.
I believe that when we swim upstream, we find out who we really are, because we were meant to be fighters, and victors, and citizens of a different realm.
I repeat what I said, that God is calling you. He is calling you out of your postmodern self-centered existentialism (which everyone applauds, because it is America’s religion) back to the foolishness of his Gospel.
He loves you so much. Every time you argue with someone like me, you push down even further the beliefs that you used to have and convince yourself even more that what you are saying is true. But the innermost part of you knows it’s not. And you know it.
June 16th, 2009 at 4:46 am
Brian, I’m not arguing with you. What have I said that’s arguing? I thanked you for your sentiments and concern. Hardly arguing.
I wrestled for two years before I made this decision. Two years!
I don’t have time this morning to sit and go through it all again, but I will make time when I can. Essentially… I begged and pleaded and cried out for God for a very long time with no response. Even after I decided that I would choose to believe even though I couldn’t hear, see, or feel God anymore. I cried out over and over again. And got no answer. That’s what I needed to realize that everything I’d been taught just wasn’t true for me.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Hey Mandi-
I hope you didn’t misunderstand my tone in my comment- I don’t think I accused you of arguing! What I said was an allusion to some of the Christian comments I have seen on other people’s posts and also the last post on your facebook note.
June 16th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
I don’t doubt that you prayed a lot. I also don’t doubt that God responded. I have had my wrestlings, too. I think it would be a lot for you to go through your whole story again- I think if I really could go in depth into that discussion with you I should really read your posts.
June 16th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
“there’s very little Christ-like in many Christians” – Boy, that’s the very sad truth, huh? What a terrible shame.
Mandi, your journey isn’t over yet! I just have this feeling that really exiting things are in store for you! I find myself drawn to your blog periodically, just to kind of see what’s going on. Oh, God isn’t finished with you!
Wasn’t “five-by-five” what the landing ship pilot said in the movie “Aliens” to describe they were in position? (“we’re in the pipe – five by five” [Whaddya mean I must be a bit of a geek?])
All the best to you!
July 26th, 2009 at 9:08 am
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August 15th, 2009 at 2:52 am
I’m replying to this one specifically so you can follow my responses through your blog and see, from my response to this one, that I read all the way to the end, as far as “face the strange” goes. My response isn’t specifically about this though, since we’ve already talked about this entry’s contents one on one.
This has all been quite a fascinating read. Looking back at the beginning, you spoke so enthusiastically about Jesus and the Bible; yet by the end, you no longer believe he’s the savior. It’s very interesting to see the shift in ideas that slowly brought about the change.
You’ve struggled with your faith, the source of your faith and reasons for it, and the actions you’ve taken based on your faith (going to church, etc.). While I can understand how some friends would be shaken by this, my belief is that a person’s spiritual beliefs do not define that person and that true friendship should go deeper than that. You say you lost most (or all?) of your friends through this; I say that in reading your text and learning your strength, determination, and capacity for passion, you’ve also gained one through it.
Thank you for sharing this with me.