Comments on: Capital Punishment – Merciful and Just?

By: Amanda

Amanda — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 01:51:00 +0000

Jeff Dunham uses that idea in his Achmed the Dead Terrorist spiel. It’s definitely funny.

By: techskeptic

techskeptic — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 01:48:53 +0000

holy crap musicguy…thats friggin hilarious!

By: Musicguy

Musicguy — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 23:43:14 +0000

no one said the 70 virgins would be women. the terrorists should keep that in mind

By: What is Mercy? Who Decides What is Just? : MInTheGap

What is Mercy? Who Decides What is Just? : MInTheGap — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 05:18:02 +0000

[...] Second, it’s really not the topic on the table. Regardless of who is right in the debate over both mercy and justice3 , the real issue is whether the Death Penalty is just. Which is where we’ll pick up on Amanda’s post. [...]

By: techskeptic

techskeptic — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 17:02:32 +0000

Well they difinitely think homosexuality is condemnable that way. Why mixing linens and shaving beards isn’t punishable by death or exile to them is beyond me. Its in the same set of 613 commandments. I’ll never understand why people bother with religion.

By: Buffy

Buffy — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 14:42:27 +0000

So do the people who support Old Testament judgement and justice think we should execute people who commit adultory or disobey their parents as well?

By: techskeptic

techskeptic — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 05:39:13 +0000

i didnt realize that the demographics of those executed were not similar to the demographics of the jail population as a whole. I thought at least that part of it was consistent. I guess not.

By: Scott Hatfield, OM

Scott Hatfield, OM — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:25:19 +0000

Techskeptic writes:isnt that ratio about the same as the ratio of people in jail? isnt that also administered unjustly? The short answer is no. The long answer is that the percentage of women vs. men convicted of capital offenses is much higher than the percentage of women who are actually executed, vs. men. The same thing is true for people of color.The broader question of whether the entire legal system has a built-in bias in favor of those who can hire the best attorneys, etc. is a different question than that of capital punishment. My argument is simply this: given that capital punishment is dispensed inequitably between sub-populations of the convicted by gender and by race (and no one disputes this), then how can it be just?

By: Techskeptic

Techskeptic — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 14:13:43 +0000

using IE now. maybe my comment will format better….

First the only reaon Min sees conflict between your religious beleifs and your views on CP is becuase his beleifs look no further than the end of his fingers. By this i mean is that he, and dare I say most conservatives, have a self centered philosophy, which focuses how things are better for the individual rather than the community, or nation. This is why taxes are such a big issue for them regardless of how it helps the rest of the nation CP, regardless of how in impacts the rest of the nation, abortion regardless of how it impact the nation as a whole, etc etc.

You on the other hand choose to beleive that as a nation, killing people doesnt help the problem and willful killing is wrong no matter who does it. And you are right. I presented a link in the last post about this about how CP rates have no effect on the murder rate. Scot posted about how it is administered unjustly.

note to scot:isnt that ratio about the same as the ratio of people in jail? isnt that also administered unjustly? Or is it simply a matter of statistical descriptions, for example minorities and poor are less educated, less advantaged, exposed to environments that condone crime, etc etc so they do more crime. Is it the punishment that is distributed unfairly, or the economic and social opportunities which are?

What min hasn’t bothered to realize (does he have kids?) is that if your daughter or son dies….there is no closure. Period. Killing the killer doesnt undo the suffereing the child or friend received, and it certainly doesnt undo murder. Like abortion, the best we can do as a society is to drop the murder rate, and this is not done by CP, its done by giving everyone the same advantages, making it equally possible for a poor minority to succeed as it is for everyone else.

I’m not saying this is easy, and I’m not even saying it is possible. But it certainly is possible to do better and doing better will drop both the murder rate and the abortion rate. Economy has a far better correlation to crime than CP does. Abortion has been dropping steadily as we do better in educating about sex and its consequences in public schools and in the media.

But when your world view doesnt extend past your fingers then its all about how something is fair to only you, how economic policy affects only you, and how health policy affects only you and that other people, who don’t beleive the same things you do, should only be allowed to do the things that only you think are correct.

Don’t get me wrong. If someone hurt my daughter, I would not be able to stop my self from trying to see immediate retribution. But that is pure emotion talking, just like eye for an eye is simply that someone write down of this exact same pure emotion. While this has not happened, I have a cooler head, and if it ever does happen it will take the cooler heads around me to help control this. But Eye for an Eye is not the sign of a cooler head. It is the sign of condoning this exact emotional response. If we act in a way that is a result of pure emotion, we are not acting morally becuase we are acting selfishly.

I’ll beleive in CP when someone shows good data that it lowers murder rates. Until then, it should be off the table.

Second, this is one of the problems with religion overall. Look, some Al qeada guy kills everyone in a store. Min would put that guy to death. By doing so you have martyred him and he will look forward to it. He will go to a land of milk and honey and 70 brainless virgin will be at his beck and call. Min chooses to send this guy to that place. Its not different that an abortion clinic bomber, or anyone else who does bad things in the name of religion or even personal beliefs. To the person who did this becuase voices told him too, or becuase God told him too, or becuase he is suffering, etc etc there is no reason to beleive you have acheived retribution. The CP victim often doesnt go down in absolute terror like their victim did. none of them go down in pain (although there is some data to suggest they actually do). Many of them feel they have made peace with god and are not going to hell.

CP is a result of the presumption that some God will administer justice and send the person to eternal hell. While I do wish this was the case… your hell may simply be another mans land of milk and honey. so not only is CP not effective as a deterent and the murder rates in states without CP show, it doesnt provide closure for the family of the victim, and its not even a good form of retribution.

I’d rather see justice and crime prevention done now, on this planet, at this time.

By: Jonathan A. Aly

Jonathan A. Aly — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 14:00:23 +0000

Hi, Amanda. My name is Jonathan and I´m from Argentina. I´ve reading your blog for a little while already, and I wanted to comment something about this particular post.
You said: “As a Christian, I see two kinds of possible justice. Earthly justice, based on our human perceptions and ideas (will he/she get the punishment I think he/she deserves?), and godly justice, based on a higher standard (forgiveness, mercy, grace, and compassion)”.
I think you are not quite right in that statement. You are confusing God´s justice and mercy as the same thing. They are not. Let me get this straight: when we were forgiven, it was not only through mercy, but also through justice. That is: the result of sin is death (as sin is the separation from God, the giver and sustainer of life), through God´s mercy we did not get that consequence BUT, nevertheless, someone did get it (Christ), and there´s justice! Christ died to fulfill God´s justice. God´s mercy could not just put justice aside, but just “redirect” the consequences to Himself. If justice wasn´t served, then God wouldn´t be a just god, and if mercy wasn´t provided, He wouldn´t be a merciful God. When Christ took our place in the cross, he showed mercy and ALSO served justice!
Therefore, I think the question about death penalty (at least from a christian point of view) it´s not about “mercy vs. justice”, but how do we serve justice AND show mercy at the same time while dealing with the matter. That is: what is the most just punishment and at the same time, the biggest and greatest way to show mercy at the same time?
At least, that´s how I think God would see it.

Forgive my english, if bad, or if I used a wrong word to describe something instead of the right one.
God bless you!