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	<title>Comments on: Going Through the Motions</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/</link>
	<description>But by the grace of God, I am what I am.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: techskeptic</title>
		<link>http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2399</link>
		<dc:creator>techskeptic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 22:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2399</guid>
		<description>Whoo... i'm blushing, didnt sound bad to me.. I can't wait to show my wife! she thinks I'm a total dork. she's probably right.

I look forward to your post. i hope you will entertain questions about why you consider this such strong evidence in your book. As I have mentioned, faith and religion, of which I share none, are truly fascinating to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoo&#8230; i&#8217;m blushing, didnt sound bad to me.. I can&#8217;t wait to show my wife! she thinks I&#8217;m a total dork. she&#8217;s probably right.</p>
<p>I look forward to your post. i hope you will entertain questions about why you consider this such strong evidence in your book. As I have mentioned, faith and religion, of which I share none, are truly fascinating to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2396</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2396</guid>
		<description>Tech - I think I love you. :) You're one of the nicest atheists I've come across. Wow, that sounded kind of bad, didn't it? 

To be honest, I'm quite content with where I am right now. I've not crossed over to "the Dark Side" completely, but I'm a long way from where I was. 

I'm planning a post at some point in the future on why I believe in God, because that's the question I keep getting asked. Although, I must admit, it will probably be harder to write than I think it will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tech - I think I love you. <img src='http://www.mandikaye.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> You&#8217;re one of the nicest atheists I&#8217;ve come across. Wow, that sounded kind of bad, didn&#8217;t it? </p>
<p>To be honest, I&#8217;m quite content with where I am right now. I&#8217;ve not crossed over to &#8220;the Dark Side&#8221; completely, but I&#8217;m a long way from where I was. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m planning a post at some point in the future on why I believe in God, because that&#8217;s the question I keep getting asked. Although, I must admit, it will probably be harder to write than I think it will.</p>
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		<title>By: techskeptic</title>
		<link>http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2395</link>
		<dc:creator>techskeptic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2395</guid>
		<description>I love it too. But as one of those logical thinkers...I just ask... Why?

Why does there have to be something bigger out there? 

Who made the rule that there must be some entity that organizes the universe? (natural laws do just fine on their own, without help) The sense of wonderment and fascination is so much stronger when you realize that this beautiful view, or that massive planet, or that gigantic star, or that tiny particle whose behavior is unlike anything we experience on a day to day level are all natural phenomena. These things are that way all by themselves. 

This is not at all a world where there is not something besides us, it is teeming with life, from the smallest plankton to the largest mammal. We interact with life in a complex dance everyday. Even looking at the human species alone, there are different socialogical forces at work when examining a single person or groups of people. These forces act to send different societies off in different directions. How can you possibly feel alone or need to imagine more when there is so much around you? More than any of us understand!

I understand the need to feel like someone was responsible for all this. But that is the stuff of fantasy and myth. Without evidence, why assign the amazing things available to us to someone else? More importantly, why assign the amazing things you have accomplished, the success of your various trials and tribulations (and the failures), the progress you and mankind has made, to an invisible, weightless, soundless, entity in the sky.

You have 78 years or so on average  to make the best of this (that statistic improves to 83 if you can just get to age 65! And for you Amanda, its even higher, as women do better).

I think you are doing yourself and many other a wonderful service by documenting your journey. I just get sad when I read things like that last comment. We could do so much better if we gave ourselves the credit we deserve and didnt get bogged down in worrying about whose interpretation of what the invisible entity wants from us is the correct one.

When you say something like "My number one priority is being who God wants me to be. I fall woefully short of this everyday, but that usually doesn’t stop me from trying.". You sell yourself so short it pains me to read. You will not and can not know what this invisible entity wants from you because it is a construction of mankind, one we have honed for thousands of years. How much happier could you be if you saw that everything that happens is a result of your actions or actions by others that you are unable to control? You can only do your best by being 100% responsible for the way you react to everything and doing what you think  advances humankind in a benevolent way. I think this blog is a sure sign that you are already on that track, god or no god.

I quite aware that atheists come off as condescending. Its an unavoidable attribute of talking about this subject, so please do not take anything I say as anything but true  encouragement and respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love it too. But as one of those logical thinkers&#8230;I just ask&#8230; Why?</p>
<p>Why does there have to be something bigger out there? </p>
<p>Who made the rule that there must be some entity that organizes the universe? (natural laws do just fine on their own, without help) The sense of wonderment and fascination is so much stronger when you realize that this beautiful view, or that massive planet, or that gigantic star, or that tiny particle whose behavior is unlike anything we experience on a day to day level are all natural phenomena. These things are that way all by themselves. </p>
<p>This is not at all a world where there is not something besides us, it is teeming with life, from the smallest plankton to the largest mammal. We interact with life in a complex dance everyday. Even looking at the human species alone, there are different socialogical forces at work when examining a single person or groups of people. These forces act to send different societies off in different directions. How can you possibly feel alone or need to imagine more when there is so much around you? More than any of us understand!</p>
<p>I understand the need to feel like someone was responsible for all this. But that is the stuff of fantasy and myth. Without evidence, why assign the amazing things available to us to someone else? More importantly, why assign the amazing things you have accomplished, the success of your various trials and tribulations (and the failures), the progress you and mankind has made, to an invisible, weightless, soundless, entity in the sky.</p>
<p>You have 78 years or so on average  to make the best of this (that statistic improves to 83 if you can just get to age 65! And for you Amanda, its even higher, as women do better).</p>
<p>I think you are doing yourself and many other a wonderful service by documenting your journey. I just get sad when I read things like that last comment. We could do so much better if we gave ourselves the credit we deserve and didnt get bogged down in worrying about whose interpretation of what the invisible entity wants from us is the correct one.</p>
<p>When you say something like &#8220;My number one priority is being who God wants me to be. I fall woefully short of this everyday, but that usually doesn’t stop me from trying.&#8221;. You sell yourself so short it pains me to read. You will not and can not know what this invisible entity wants from you because it is a construction of mankind, one we have honed for thousands of years. How much happier could you be if you saw that everything that happens is a result of your actions or actions by others that you are unable to control? You can only do your best by being 100% responsible for the way you react to everything and doing what you think  advances humankind in a benevolent way. I think this blog is a sure sign that you are already on that track, god or no god.</p>
<p>I quite aware that atheists come off as condescending. Its an unavoidable attribute of talking about this subject, so please do not take anything I say as anything but true  encouragement and respect.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2394</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2394</guid>
		<description>Hi! I just started reading your blog. And I would just like to say.

&lt;i&gt;God is a “matter of fact” for me because…He is. This is a silly argument for you logical thinkers…but there has to be something bigger than us out there. I can’t fathom a world where there isn’t something besides us.&lt;/i&gt;

Amen! 
I just love your last statement!
Truly, Amen and Amen!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! I just started reading your blog. And I would just like to say.</p>
<p><i>God is a “matter of fact” for me because…He is. This is a silly argument for you logical thinkers…but there has to be something bigger than us out there. I can’t fathom a world where there isn’t something besides us.</i></p>
<p>Amen!<br />
I just love your last statement!<br />
Truly, Amen and Amen!</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2295</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2295</guid>
		<description>Lifewish! I thought maybe you were dead or something you've been gone so long...

Welcome back :)

God is a "matter of fact" for me because...He is. This is a silly argument for you logical thinkers...but there has to be something bigger than us out there. I can't fathom a world where there isn't something besides us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lifewish! I thought maybe you were dead or something you&#8217;ve been gone so long&#8230;</p>
<p>Welcome back <img src='http://www.mandikaye.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>God is a &#8220;matter of fact&#8221; for me because&#8230;He is. This is a silly argument for you logical thinkers&#8230;but there has to be something bigger than us out there. I can&#8217;t fathom a world where there isn&#8217;t something besides us.</p>
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		<title>By: Lifewish</title>
		<link>http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2277</link>
		<dc:creator>Lifewish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 16:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2277</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I even think Jesus existed - 4 nearly identical accounts in the Bible, plus other historical sources are enough for me to believe he existed.&lt;/i&gt;

Point of information: the evidence is pretty convincing that this is due to Matthew and Luke being cribbed off Mark. That leaves us with at most two primary sources, both of which display some propensity for "tweaking" the facts if it made a better narrative*.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no external sources that reference Jesus, except in the context of his followers kicking up a ruckus.

I realise I'm coming in horribly late to this discussion - have spent the last month of weekends redecorating a new flat, with no end in sight. Kudos on having the mental flexibility to adjust your religious orientation. I am of course curious about what makes God "a matter of fact" for you.

* For example, Mark 15:10 - never mind what Pilate knew about the priests, how on Earth could the Gospel author know about Pilate's internal monologue?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I even think Jesus existed - 4 nearly identical accounts in the Bible, plus other historical sources are enough for me to believe he existed.</i></p>
<p>Point of information: the evidence is pretty convincing that this is due to Matthew and Luke being cribbed off Mark. That leaves us with at most two primary sources, both of which display some propensity for &#8220;tweaking&#8221; the facts if it made a better narrative*.</p>
<p>To the best of my knowledge, there are no external sources that reference Jesus, except in the context of his followers kicking up a ruckus.</p>
<p>I realise I&#8217;m coming in horribly late to this discussion - have spent the last month of weekends redecorating a new flat, with no end in sight. Kudos on having the mental flexibility to adjust your religious orientation. I am of course curious about what makes God &#8220;a matter of fact&#8221; for you.</p>
<p>* For example, Mark 15:10 - never mind what Pilate knew about the priests, how on Earth could the Gospel author know about Pilate&#8217;s internal monologue?</p>
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		<title>By: Patriarch Anthony</title>
		<link>http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2273</link>
		<dc:creator>Patriarch Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 21:55:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2273</guid>
		<description>Hello,

I have taken to reading your blog from time to time and I understand your faith struggle. I spent much of the last 2 years struggling with my own faith journey. I finally found that God is far less judgmental than those who claim to follow him. That, in and of itself, was a great relief. Once I realized that I found that I could follow him much better without the outside influence of most of the Christians who surrounded me. 

I am now a Gnostic. And since my conversion (of sorts) I have found true inner peace and contentment. I find that I can talk to God rather than pray to him. I have found what true forgiveness and humility is all about. I have been able to reach out to others that I would not have otherwise reached out to. 

In short, I feel closer to God now than ever before. 

I pray that you will come to that point in your walk as well. Feel free to contact me if I can be of any assistance. 

I remain, In His Service,

+Anthony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,</p>
<p>I have taken to reading your blog from time to time and I understand your faith struggle. I spent much of the last 2 years struggling with my own faith journey. I finally found that God is far less judgmental than those who claim to follow him. That, in and of itself, was a great relief. Once I realized that I found that I could follow him much better without the outside influence of most of the Christians who surrounded me. </p>
<p>I am now a Gnostic. And since my conversion (of sorts) I have found true inner peace and contentment. I find that I can talk to God rather than pray to him. I have found what true forgiveness and humility is all about. I have been able to reach out to others that I would not have otherwise reached out to. </p>
<p>In short, I feel closer to God now than ever before. </p>
<p>I pray that you will come to that point in your walk as well. Feel free to contact me if I can be of any assistance. </p>
<p>I remain, In His Service,</p>
<p>+Anthony</p>
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		<title>By: Berlzebub</title>
		<link>http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2261</link>
		<dc:creator>Berlzebub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2261</guid>
		<description>You have my support, without judgement, in where ever your future path leads, Amanda. A decision such as this is never easy, must not be taken lightly, and &lt;i&gt;has&lt;/i&gt; to be your own decision.

That being said, I believe both you and Mr. Hatfield are correct. Although, it largely depends on the denomination, and even on the individual. Everyone has to choose their own path and way. It's not easy, but it will make you more comfortable with who you are and you will be happier for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have my support, without judgement, in where ever your future path leads, Amanda. A decision such as this is never easy, must not be taken lightly, and <i>has</i> to be your own decision.</p>
<p>That being said, I believe both you and Mr. Hatfield are correct. Although, it largely depends on the denomination, and even on the individual. Everyone has to choose their own path and way. It&#8217;s not easy, but it will make you more comfortable with who you are and you will be happier for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Hatfield, OM</title>
		<link>http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2257</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Hatfield, OM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 22:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2257</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;"In theory, no. In practice, yes. The church and the actions of the church and the dogma of the church all comes from the NT."&lt;/i&gt;

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I don't think it's that cut-and-dried.  Doctrines like the Trinity and the nature of Christ (fully human, fully divine) were not spelled out in the scriptures.  These items were proclaimed as dogma centuries after the composition of the present NT canon.  There were competing views on these topics that only after the fact were labeled as 'heresies':  such as the notion, broached by you, that Jesus was human but not divine.

Now, I think you should be free to believe what you want.  I'm certainly in no position to label another a heretic!  But your comments make it clear that you've invested much of your faith in the Bible itself, which is typical of folk who attend evangelical churches.  Without attempting to bad-mouth anyone, let me suggest that there are other viewpoints.

You can read about the diversity of ways scripture has been interpreted &lt;a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_inte.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt; here.&lt;/a&gt;  I hope you find it useful.

Peace....Scott</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;In theory, no. In practice, yes. The church and the actions of the church and the dogma of the church all comes from the NT.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry to disagree with you, but I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s that cut-and-dried.  Doctrines like the Trinity and the nature of Christ (fully human, fully divine) were not spelled out in the scriptures.  These items were proclaimed as dogma centuries after the composition of the present NT canon.  There were competing views on these topics that only after the fact were labeled as &#8216;heresies&#8217;:  such as the notion, broached by you, that Jesus was human but not divine.</p>
<p>Now, I think you should be free to believe what you want.  I&#8217;m certainly in no position to label another a heretic!  But your comments make it clear that you&#8217;ve invested much of your faith in the Bible itself, which is typical of folk who attend evangelical churches.  Without attempting to bad-mouth anyone, let me suggest that there are other viewpoints.</p>
<p>You can read about the diversity of ways scripture has been interpreted <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_inte.htm" rel="nofollow"> here.</a>  I hope you find it useful.</p>
<p>Peace&#8230;.Scott</p>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2254</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 21:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mandikaye.com/2007/08/07/going-through-the-motions/#comment-2254</guid>
		<description>You're not alone.  I feel you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re not alone.  I feel you.</p>
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