It’s the only “cluster of cells” that, barring outside intervention (ie, abortion) will likely develop its own heartbeat, brainwaves, digestive system and the rest, and eventually become independent and self-aware. I’m not sure which of those, by itself, constitutes “a person”, but the fact that those things are what lie ahead would seem to distinguish the embryo from a kidney, ovary, or appendix.

Would you argue that an embryo is not even a person in the earliest stages of personhood?

What about the morning-after pill? That can abort a fertilised egg by preventing it from implanting, IIRC.

And then when it begins to look like a baby (no matter how small), I would feel that killing it is wrong.

So basically it’s a baby when looking at it makes you think “ooh, baby”, right? Kudos on being more honest than most; good luck constructing a legal test for that.

Next question: is there any good reason why someone who doesn’t have that intuitive reaction should agree with this dividing line, or is it primarily a personal stance?

I have to believe that it’s a baby from conception because of what God says about humans (that he knew us before He formed us in the womb, that we were fearfully and wonderfully made, that He has a plan).

If so then God would have a great deal of unnecessary planning to do – between 1/4 and 3/4 of pregnancies spontaneously abort.

I’ll never change your mind, and vice versa. The issue, as usual, is when we start to limit the rights of others based on personal religious convictions. Millions of Americans don’t believe the same things you do, and they cannot be forced in any way to believe what you believe. Limiting or disallowing abortions in this country would do just that.

Personally, I’m with janie here- brain waves= baby. Until then, cells with a somewhat distinguishable shape.

It won’t be aborted until later in the first tri-mester when the baby definitely has fingers and toes forming. When you can see eyes. When you can see that it’s a child.

You do have a point though. I don’t know without a shadow of a doubt what point I would believe that a baby is a baby if it weren’t for my beliefs. I would probably agree that it’s a cluster of cells until visually it begins to take the form of a human. And then when it begins to look like a baby (no matter how small), I would feel that killing it is wrong.

As a Christian, I just can’t do that. I have to believe that it’s a baby from conception because of what God says about humans (that he knew us before He formed us in the womb, that we were fearfully and wonderfully made, that He has a plan).

To second Musicguy: in what way is it more than a small cluster of cells?

I’d additionally note that your previous comments suggested you were also against early abortions, in which case the “baby” quite definitely is a small cluster of cells.

The “because I said so” argument doesn’t hold water, and is frequently the mantra of the more conservative types. Janie lays out a clear argument, uses fact, opinion and question to substatiate her position. In my internet roamings, I see many liberal types with this M.O., and it generally makes them the victor in conversations such as this. The conservative types tend to pick up their ball and go home once they use the “because I said so line”. Amanda, it’s your blog, so you have to stay, my dear!

I’m really fasinated by this phenomenon. It really helps substatiate my claim that there is no such thing as a moral abosolute.

So to keep this circle going: WHY isn’t it a small cluster of cells??????????????????